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-   -   Garmin TFR Database Error (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=206420)

jliltd 05-15-2022 12:19 AM

Garmin Portables TFR Database Error
 
I have a question about the accuracy of Garmin's TFR descriptions as they are shown on the maps of our aera 660's and 760's. There are three contiguous TFRs along the border between the US and Mexico. 2/0045, 2/0046 and 2/0047. These are located down the Rio Grande from El Paso, Texas to Van Horn, Texas. Local pilots have run into arguments in the air because the Garmin database says these TFRs are from the surface up to FL13. However all the other "competitive" databases show these TFRs are from 10K to 13K. As does the FAA Notam web site. Not the surface up like Garmin's depictions state. So why would the Garmin database not state the proper altitudes of these TFRs? This would be very important information. The Garmin flyers are diverting around this airspace trusting their Garmin TFR information and not wanting to "virtually" violate the TFR. All the while the Foreflight, iFly, FlyQ, Avidyne flyers can just fly under it without violation per the official FAA NOTAM.

Longez 05-15-2022 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jliltd (Post 1608281)
I have a question about the accuracy of Garmin's TFR descriptions as they are shown on the maps of our aera 660's and 760's. There are three contiguous TFRs along the border between the US and Mexico. 2/0045, 2/0046 and 2/0047. These are located down the Rio Grande from El Paso, Texas to Van Horn, Texas. Local pilots have run into arguments in the air because the Garmin database says these TFRs are from the surface up to FL13. However all the other "competitive" databases show these TFRs are from 10K to 13K. As does the FAA Notam web site. Not the surface up like Garmin's depictions state. So why would the Garmin database not state the proper altitudes of these TFRs? This would be very important information. The Garmin flyers are diverting around this airspace trusting their Garmin TFR information and not wanting to "virtually" violate the TFR. All the while the Foreflight, iFly, FlyQ, Avidyne flyers can just fly under it without violation per the official FAA NOTAM.

Jim,

Perhaps semantics, but there is not a TFR database stored inside the Aera 660/760 non-volatile memory.

When the unit is powered up, any TFR data available is dynamically received over datalink during that power cycle.

It sounds like there is either an error in the received datalink TFR data, or an interpretation error of correct data.

TFR data is received from satellite (SXM) or ground uplink (ADS-B). Which method were you using to receive this data when you saw the error?

Thanks,
Steve

g3xpert 05-15-2022 07:01 PM

TFR Data
 
Hi Jim,

We will take a look at this, this week. In addition to the type of datalink, can you let us know what datalink receiver you are using?

Thanks,

Justin

jliltd 05-15-2022 11:07 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I have an aera 660 with a GDL 52 with an active SXM subscription. So I have both FIS-B and SXM data available. I don't know which source is priority. The GDL 52 is hard wired to the aera 660 via serial connection. I outlined the TFRs in yellow here:

Longez 05-16-2022 02:14 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Jim,

I panned around and looked at these TFRs before shutting down after my flight today. I also saw the issue you reported.

My Aera 760 is hardwired to a GDL 52R and receiving TFRs via SXM.

We don't know if this is a SXM data issue or an Aera 660/760 issue, but I am sure Justin will get to the bottom of it.

Attachment 25886

Steve

g3xpert 05-16-2022 02:25 PM

TFR Data
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jliltd (Post 1608482)
I have an aera 660 with a GDL 52 with an active SXM subscription. So I have both FIS-B and SXM data available. I don't know which source is priority. The GDL 52 is hard wired to the aera 660 via serial connection. I outlined the TFRs in yellow here:

Thanks Jim,

We are seeing the same thing as both you and Steve. This appears to affect both Aera 660 and Aera 760. We will jump on getting a fix out for this, thanks for the heads up on this.

Justin

RV8JD 05-16-2022 03:21 PM

Justin,

Why are TFRs not available (apparently) while the Aera 660 is connected to the internet via Wi-Fi?

Screenshot taken a few minutes ago, showing WX, but no TFRs that are being discussed in this thread:


Fred.Stucklen 05-16-2022 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RV8JD (Post 1608615)
Justin,

Why are TFRs not available (apparently) while the Aera 660 is connected to the internet via Wi-Fi?


I see them on SkyVector.com....

RV8JD 05-16-2022 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred.Stucklen (Post 1608621)
I see them on SkyVector.com....

Yes, and I see them on ForeFlight.com (the web version of FF). But that's not what we are talking about here.

g3xpert 05-17-2022 08:19 AM

TFR Over Internet
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RV8JD (Post 1608615)
Justin,

Why are TFRs not available (apparently) while the Aera 660 is connected to the internet via Wi-Fi?

Screenshot taken a few minutes ago, showing WX, but no TFRs that are being discussed in this thread:


Good Morning,

There are a few different sources you can use for weather information, SiriusXM, FIS-B, and the Internet based Garmin Weather Datastream. The first two also include TFR information, the internet weather data stream does not. See page 115 of the Aera 660 Pilot's Guide.

Thanks,

Justin


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