Mark Dickens

Mark Dickens

Well Known Member
Patron
I received this email from Vans this afternoon. Attached was the general list of parts that may be LCP (not specific to my kit-that will be coming soon). All I have so far is the tail kit for the -14 and it appears that the majority of parts were manufactured in the April-June 2023 time frame. I did not check every part, but I took a close look at several parts that were on the list and designated in red. If these parts were laser drilled, I couldn't tell it. They looked perfect. I'm in the laser engraving business and I know what a laser cut hole looks like, but this is aluminum so I'm not sure. They look punched to me.

So, since Vans doesn't know if a particular part was laser drilled or punched, how would I know if the part is good? I really do not want (for my sake and Vans) to ask for parts I don't need and then wait for months to get them. This project needs to get back on track.
 
I made a whole spreadsheet for the RV-8 fuselage before Ch 11.
I will update in a few days when I have time. I’ll give a part by part breakdown of the increases. I have all the pricing from pre Ch11

For reference an aft bulkhead (blue part) F807B-1 was $26.60 pre Ch 11.
Now it’s $46.55. https://store.vansaircraft.com/f-807b-1-aft-bulkhead-f-807b-1.html

According to the email we’ll get 25% off. Now $46.55 is $34.91. That’s $8.31 more than retail pre Ch 11 which was $26.6

There was the pipe dream free replacement. Then there was “at a significant discount” which was promised by Vans. Raise the price and give a discount. Feels like I’m shopping at a bargain store that’s not a bargain. Looks like whatever you totaled up at retail pre Ch 11 you need to add 31% to whatever that was.

Let’s not forget that you already bought it once already.
 
I was fortunate in that my tail kit wasn't shipped until September and apparently does not have LCPs in it (as the vast majority of the parts have blue vinyl on them). By the time they shipped my tail kit, they must have excluded the LCPs when crating it. Lucky me for sure.
 
To quote the email
Many Quick Build customers received pre-assembled flaps and ailerons, which may contain red and yellow laser-cut parts. Van’s will be providing all potentially affected customers the components necessary to build new flaps and ailerons from parts. We are currently evaluating an option to supply assembled flaps and ailerons for a fee.

[ed. Removed sentence I felt crossed the rules line. v/r,dr]
 
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Of course they could have filed for liquidation and closed their doors entirely. The situation is unfortunate but a path forward remains, and for that I am grateful.

Patrick
 
Pskluz said:
To quote the email
Many Quick Build customers received pre-assembled flaps and ailerons, which may contain red and yellow laser-cut parts. Van’s will be providing all potentially affected customers the components necessary to build new flaps and ailerons from parts. We are currently evaluating an option to supply assembled flaps and ailerons for a fee.

[ed. Removed sentence I felt crossed the rules line. v/r,dr]
Click to expand...

In my cursory scan of the wing parts list for the 14, it doesn't appear that there's much there that was mandatory or recommended replacement LCPs for the flaps and ailerons...
 
There are 25 part numbers that were on v 6.0 of the laser cut parts list for the RV-14 wing kit that are no longer on version 7.0 of the list. 12 of them were red. I have these parts and they were laser cut. I know Vans can change the classification of the parts (red/yellow/green/blue) but ALL laser cut parts should be on the list - especially parts that were previously classified as RED.

I don't know if there are other errors on the list as I only have the -14 wing kit with affected LCP's.

UPDATE: I let Greg know about this and he said he would pass it along to the folks working on the list. Hopefully we will get a revised list soon with corrections.
 
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bertschb said:
There are 25 part numbers that were on v 6.0 of the laser cut parts list for the RV-14 wing kit that are no longer on version 7.0 of the list. 12 of them were red. I have these parts and they were laser cut. I know Vans can change the classification of the parts (red/yellow/green/blue) but ALL laser cut parts should be on the list - especially parts that were previously classified as RED.

I don't know if there are other errors on the list as I only have the -14 wing kit with affected LCP's.

UPDATE: I let Greg know about this and he said he would pass it along to the folks working on the list. Hopefully we will get a revised list soon with corrections.
Click to expand...

Great catch Brian and thank you for reporting it to me. The team has updated LCP list v7.1 and it is published. A handful of RV-14 aileron and flap components were hidden from view in the PDF publication, and that has been corrected.
 
I've tallied my SB Fuse kit (I already made a complete inventory of LCPs) and total LCP replacement for everything not already deeply embedded would be over $1,130 including discount and tax, not including shipping. Tough pill to swallow, given we were initially told LCPs would be replaced for free. Still, it is the fact that my build has been on hold for 6-7 months now, and looks to be longer while I wait for replacements and "alternate solutions", that is worse than the money at this point. At least I don't have a QB.

Now I need to choose if I will go for replacing all these blue and green parts or accepting them. Some are pretty gnarly, others maybe not so bad. I'm very much afraid what Van's will recommend as an alternate solution for F-01405D-L&R. There are rivets there that, because I installed them with the shop head on the thicker material as you're supposed to, drilling them out will likely cause A LOT of collateral damage.
 
bertschb said:
There are 25 part numbers that were on v 6.0 of the laser cut parts list for the RV-14 wing kit that are no longer on version 7.0 of the list. 12 of them were red. I have these parts and they were laser cut. I know Vans can change the classification of the parts (red/yellow/green/blue) but ALL laser cut parts should be on the list - especially parts that were previously classified as RED.

I don't know if there are other errors on the list as I only have the -14 wing kit with affected LCP's.

UPDATE: I let Greg know about this and he said he would pass it along to the folks working on the list. Hopefully we will get a revised list soon with corrections.
Click to expand...


This is the same for the RV-8 Fuselage list. There were 10 LCP items listed as red or yellow on the old list that aren't on the new list at all.
Will reach out to Greg/Vans and see what's happened.
 
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greghughespdx said:
Great catch Brian and thank you for reporting it to me. The team has updated LCP list v7.1 and it is published. A handful of RV-14 aileron and flap components were hidden from view in the PDF publication, and that has been corrected.
Click to expand...

Greg, a suggestion. Please put in a header or footer in the LCP list with the version number (and maybe the release date).
 
Jonnyb said:
This is the same for the RV-8 Fuselage list. There were 10 LCP items listed as red or yellow on the old list that aren't on the new list at all.
Will reach out to Greg/Vans and see what's happened.
Click to expand...

Does anyone have a way to access the older versions? I realize I don't have v6 saved, and am specifically working on an RV-8 fuselage kit.

Unbelievable (and frustrating) that attention to detail, on this issue in particular, is still a concern.
 
Bullpup said:
Does anyone have a way to access the older versions? I realize I don't have v6 saved, and am specifically working on an RV-8 fuselage kit.

Unbelievable (and frustrating) that attention to detail, on this issue in particular, is still a concern.
Click to expand...

Rev 6 from November.
 

Attachments

  • VAD-10041R6_LaserCutPartsList 11-2023.pdf
    1.2 MB · Views: 140
Dr_Dave_MT said:
Rev 6 from November.
Click to expand...

Thanks! Also confirms my concerns, I have a verified LCP F-819-1, Aft Deck, on a QB fuselage - the laser artifacts are still present after prep and primer, and it was categorized RED and is missing from v7/7.1.

Standing by for v7.2-
 
If you haven't noticed, on most of the part number labels, there is an in stock date (assuming you have not pulled the labels off yet). I was able to go through and use those dates against Van's "first in stock date" from the LCP sheets and verify that I only had a couple of laser cut parts. Double checked visually and am comfortable that I was able to keep working.

I hope this helps you figure out how badly effected you may be if you were on the borderline like I was.
 
bob865 said:
If you haven't noticed, on most of the part number labels, there is an in stock date (assuming you have not pulled the labels off yet). I was able to go through and use those dates against Van's "first in stock date" from the LCP sheets and verify that I only had a couple of laser cut parts. Double checked visually and am comfortable that I was able to keep working.

I hope this helps you figure out how badly effected you may be if you were on the borderline like I was.
Click to expand...
The date has changed depending on the revision... the best thing to do is to visually examine all parts.

Bullpup said:
Thanks! Also confirms my concerns, I have a verified LCP F-819-1, Aft Deck, on a QB fuselage - the laser artifacts are still present after prep and primer, and it was categorized RED and is missing from v7/7.1.

Standing by for v7.2-
Click to expand...
I've noticed parts were previously listed for the RV7 are now missing; I made a separate thread yesterday for it to be discussed and find out why they were deleted.
 
Paul Thomas said:
The date has changed depending on the revision... the best thing to do is to visually examine all parts.


I've noticed parts were previously listed for the RV7 are now missing; I made a separate thread yesterday for it to be discussed and find out why they were deleted.
Click to expand...

V7.2 posted to Van's website, along with the new engineering assessment videos.

Thanks Greg!
 
I looked over my pre Ch 11 spreadsheet and compared all the fuselage parts for the RV-8 Fuselage. Retail to retail it’s a 75% increase. What was $10 us now 17.50. The “discount” of 25% makes that $17.50 into $13.12. For anyone that that did pre Ch 11 math add 31% and that’s at least close to your new number.

Greg, what happened to the substantial discount??? I think cost plus overhead is sufficient. 25% off after you raised it 75% is short of the mark. A lot of us were flabbergasted at the thought to pay old retail to replace these parts let alone the new plan which to the outsider still has the appearance of profiting on top of the LCP mistakes. I’m disappointed.
 
N82VM said:
A lot of us were flabbergasted at the thought to pay old retail to replace these parts let alone the new plan which to the outsider still has the appearance of profiting on top of the LCP mistakes. I’m disappointed.
Click to expand...

Disappointed, yes. Eager to get on with my project, also yes, and I am blocked waiting for replacements for red LCPs whose cracks did not meet my comfort level and I had to remove. I'm very much looking forward to when Van's calls me and asks me what I plan to do, so I can put this behind me, finally.
 
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I picked up all the punched LCP replacement parts for my -14A wing kit today as well as my newly crated fuselage kit. I made my first final payment on this fuselage kit in August so I'm really happy to finally have it sitting in my hangar - even though the second final payment was a bit painful. The icing on the cake was passing Mr VanGrunsven as we drove out the gate. Nice to see him at the factory! The last six months has been painful for everybody at Vans as well as many of us builders. I feel very fortunate to have enough parts now to keep me busy building for most of this year. Hope the rest of you get the parts you need soon to continue building as well.
 
bertschb said:
I picked up all the punched LCP replacement parts for my -14A wing kit today as well as my newly crated fuselage kit. I made my first final payment on this fuselage kit in August so I'm really happy to finally have it sitting in my hangar - even though the second final payment was a bit painful. The icing on the cake was passing Mr VanGrunsven as we drove out the gate. Nice to see him at the factory! The last six months has been painful for everybody at Vans as well as many of us builders. I feel very fortunate to have enough parts now to keep me busy building for most of this year. Hope the rest of you get the parts you need soon to continue building as well.
Click to expand...
Congratulations! I wish I lived near Vans so I could pick up the 2 remaining back order parts for my tail kit. Just a couple of nose ribs for the VS...You might think that they might prioritize getting small back orders out asap...you know small cost, happy customer and all? No communication...they are giving up a lot of potential good will by not communicating early and often. Again business practices seem to be their Achilles heel.
 
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