R

romaja

Well Known Member
Trying to figure out my situation. Payed for my engine in full on October 9th. Engine was shipped to Vans and currently resides there. Does this mean I will be called in the next 7 to 10 days to pick up in "will call" or is it frozen for 90 days and subject to the chapter 11?

Thanks
 
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Honestly, the engines and props are a pass through business for Van's. They likely mark it up a bit and resell it to the user, or more likely, simply act as an agent for the manufacturers, and never actually own the engine/prop inventory. That transactional pass through business (and price) likely won't be affected by the bankruptcy filing (unless I'm way off base). At least that's the way I would set it up if I was in Lycoming/Hartzell's position.

Here's the notice on Van's website:

Customers with deposits on engines/powerplants, propellers, and avionics

We are working with our engine, propeller, and avionics partners to develop our plans for these products and customers as soon as possible. We will update customers with these orders when we have been able to establish specific plans with each partner. Due to the volume and nature of these orders, we do not expect to have answers for these customers before mid-January. If we have meaningful information to share, we will update you sooner.
 
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TS Flightlines said:
Jim---only my opinion, but if you payed for the engine in full, and Lycoming shipped the engine to Vans, and its there with your name on it-----I'd get in teh truck and go get it. Lycoming wouldnt have shipped it unless they were paid, so there shouldnt be an issue wiith you getting it. Only my opinion.

Tom
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Not sure Lycoming is listed as a creditor in the filing. So they shipped something Van's hasn't paid for.

Oliver
 
Lycoming

Per a previous post citing the chapter 11 filing, lycoming is a creditor. Instead of being drop shipped, those engines would have been shipped to Vans. Also, a recent video posted on YouTube by jimmy’s world, showed Greg giving the tour and showed multiple lycoming engine boxes on the racks.
 
Deposits after 10/6/23 held in a trust

According to the chapter 11 filing it looks like deposits made after 10/6 were put in a separate trust.
 
Halleffect said:
According to the chapter 11 filing it looks like deposits made after 10/6 were put in a separate trust.
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Lycoming will not release an engine and ship until final payment has been made. What I payed was the final payment of the 75% balance. Deposit was made several years ago.

Jim
 
we don't know the full story on those engines as I don't think Jimmy talked about them.

they could be for builder assisted aircraft, prototypes, customer pickups or even the RV15.

Again with the cost of engines and parts that Van's stocks for them it doesn't take long to rack up the cost they owe Lycoming.
 
APicard said:
we don't know the full story on those engines as I don't think Jimmy talked about them.

they could be for builder assisted aircraft, prototypes, customer pickups or even the RV15.

Again with the cost of engines and parts that Van's stocks for them it doesn't take long to rack up the cost they owe Lycoming.
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I know in talking with Vans that there are several people in my same position with paid engines in the warehouse. It’s common for oversea’s builders to hold an engine at Vans until the other kit parts are ready to ship to save shipping costs. In my particular situation I had planned on having my engine drop shipped to my residence. At that point I realized that I might not be home when Lycoming drop ships it to my door. So I changed the order to have it sent to Vans instead at the last minute.
 
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What about Rotax?

I am curious how much of the Rotax powerplant kit has parts in it that Vans provides vs. straight from Rotax. I am thinking engine mount and other things necessary to fit with the RV-12iS?

The fact that the bulk of the kit is provided by Rotax makes me feel not terrible, but I am still nervous in shelling out $30k to complete what I owe given all the uncertainty. Sounds like we won't hear till mid January at the earliest on what the next step is.

I also did not see Rotax on the list of top 20 creditors. Wonder why?
 
Rotax doesn’t have as long a history working with vans as lycoming. Rotax is also a foreign distributor if that makes any difference. I can imagine that Rotax requires payment in full upfront so they probably have no losses at this time. The 12 is relatively new in the vans history so I’m sure Rotax doesn’t let a customer with a short business relationship history get into them too far.
 
I had a Rotax 912IS on order and made the final payment before 10/6. So the payment was made by the time I saw the 10/27 announcement regarding reorganization and evaluation made by Van's. My engine shipped on 10/27 (sigh of relief) and arrived about a week later. Still waiting for a few items from the PP kit on back order.
 
henrysamson said:
I had a Rotax 912IS on order and made the final payment before 10/6. So the payment was made by the time I saw the 10/27 announcement regarding reorganization and evaluation made by Van's. My engine shipped on 10/27 (sigh of relief) and arrived about a week later. Still waiting for a few items from the PP kit on back order.
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Lucky! When did you place your original order?
 
henrysamson said:
August 2022. They were saying 11 months at the time and they shipped an engine in July. That one was destroyed in transit and the replacement arrived last month.
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"Destroyed in transit" - there's probably a good story behind that one, likely involving a now-unemployed truck driver.
 
romaja said:
Trying to figure out my situation. Payed for my engine in full on October 9th. Engine was shipped to Vans and currently resides there. Does this mean I will be called in the next 7 to 10 days to pick up in "will call" or is it frozen for 90 days and subject to the chapter 11?

Thanks
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Update on my original post (OP):

I was able to speak with Greg at Vans recently and he was helpful in resolving the issue. I was able to pick up my engine today. Much appreciated.

Jim R.
 
I have had my engine paid in full since August of this year. My understanding from my discussion with Chris Gayman from Lycoming yesterday after he sent out Lycoming's official response notification is that Vans has yet to send them any of my money and that it is still considered a "deposit", even though I have paid in full.

I am worried that I just donated $50K plus to Vans with nothing to show for it.... Even though it is a "pass through" purchase, Vans still has to have the funds to send to Lycoming to pay for my engine I paid them to deliver to me. If they are out of funds..... not sure that Lycoming gets my money and that my donation went to the operational costs of the business......

Crossing my fingers that I am wrong in this one.....
 
Sorry to hear that. Did Van's reach out to you and request the balance? The engine was ready? Or did you send it in early to get the bill out of the way?
 
didja said:
I have had my engine paid in full since August of this year. My understanding from my discussion with Chris Gayman from Lycoming yesterday after he sent out Lycoming's official response notification is that Vans has yet to send them any of my money and that it is still considered a "deposit", even though I have paid in full.

I am worried that I just donated $50K plus to Vans with nothing to show for it.... Even though it is a "pass through" purchase, Vans still has to have the funds to send to Lycoming to pay for my engine I paid them to deliver to me. If they are out of funds..... not sure that Lycoming gets my money and that my donation went to the operational costs of the business......

Crossing my fingers that I am wrong in this one.....
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That is super frustrating. It’s bad enough to have that much money with nothing to show for it [yet], but probably even more frustrating that the money was supposed to go to someone who isn’t in Chapter 11. Really sorry you’re in that spot. I bet there are others too.
 
didja said:
I have had my engine paid in full since August of this year. My understanding from my discussion with Chris Gayman from Lycoming yesterday after he sent out Lycoming's official response notification is that Vans has yet to send them any of my money and that it is still considered a "deposit", even though I have paid in full.

I am worried that I just donated $50K plus to Vans with nothing to show for it.... Even though it is a "pass through" purchase, Vans still has to have the funds to send to Lycoming to pay for my engine I paid them to deliver to me. If they are out of funds..... not sure that Lycoming gets my money and that my donation went to the operational costs of the business......

Crossing my fingers that I am wrong in this one.....
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I am in the same situation. They asked for payment in full because my engine was being manufactured.
 
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Let me get this straight. In August they asked for the remaining 75%, you sent it in. Several months go by and no engine shipped. The thunderbolt process is about two weeks start to finish. Regular Lycoming even faster.

Presuming the 25% deposit was already gone, the 75% you sent is not enough to pay for the engine. Hence why it never shipped. Because they don't have the rest of the money your 75% also went into general ops funds and was used in the same way that the 25% deposit was used.

Now Chapter 11 makes all that go away. I'll be patiently waiting along with you for the exercise of integrity to make that situation right.

I only have a deposit on the line and truly empathize with your situation.
 
No, I did not receive a request for the remaining balance. I simply sent it so that I could get the bill out of the way (elsewise I would have spent the money cause I have 0 discipline). My belief was that it would be all paid to lycoming and then when it was ready to ship, it was already taken care of.

I had no idea that Vans would hold onto my engine payment in its entirety and use it for their own business funding. There is zero reason that they should have held on to my money instead of paying Lycoming when full payment was received.

There is also ZERO reason that they should have been stealing from my deposit coffers as they had ZERO input in the construction or any cost related item to my engine purchase. They were merely a middle man to the purchase.

I'm pretty frustrated...... have to patiently await their announcement in January....
 
almost criminal in my opinion

Would't it be illegal to collect money for a specific item ( engine ) but spending it on something else? They wouldn't do that, would they?


Sorry if i get all this wrong. I'm not familar with american law. But I feel like angry and a victim without any help.



I paid my Thunderbolt 390 #18520 100% in March 2023. It shoud be sitting in storage at Vans. But nobody gives me any answer. First the said: sorry we are doing inventory" then the said: "we are waiting for permission to ship" now I got an email : " we need to handle something out with Lycoming and others"



I don't believe them any more. I am lost. I am not rich enough to pay the 50000$ a second time. Any sugestions?
 
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Major-Tom said:
How would someone do that on the other side of the atlantic?
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You know, that is a fair question.
I think any U.S. based attorney would be happy to work with you to help you get the information that you need. I am guessing that with a credit card number, an an hour of their time, you could get all sorts of information that is applicable to your specific situation, to better understand the situation that you are in.

An EU attorney could be helpful too, but may be less familiar with U.S. laws.
 
Major-Tom said:
How would someone do that on the other side of the atlantic?
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You want to talk to a lawyer that is familiar with US Bankruptcy law as practiced in the state of Oregon.

Each state has a licensing body for lawyers called the bar association. That licensing body generally has a neutral referral services. The one for Oregon is here:

https://www.osbar.org/public/ris

Not sure if you are an AOPA member including their legal service. If you are call AOPA consultation on this is covered per their video.

Oliver
 
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